4th of January 2017
ADRIAN: Good morning, Maurice!
MAURICE: Good morning!
ADRIAN: I want to start our discussion by asking you who is Jeffrey Wolf Green and what is Evolutionary Astrology?
MAURICE: Okay. Jeffrey Wolf Green is an astrologer who developed very profoundly a branch in astrology called evolutionary astrology. So, the purpose of this is to identify the evolutionary process of the soul in the birth chart. When we look at the chart we don’t only see what this person is good at or what family they come from, if they are intelligent or if they are emotional, things like that, but we look at why things happen a certain way, what is the evolutionary purpose for being very intellectual, what does it serve in the soul evolution. So, it comes from the perspective that nothing in this life is by mistake and that we as human beings are incarnating souls and we learn about life from one incarnation to another. And the very important thing is that the chart can show that, because we may say, well, maybe I don’t believe in reincarnation or even if I believe in reincarnation, can we really see past lives in the chart? I have done quite a bit of research myself, and can confidently say that we can identify past life themes in the natal chart, and it is valid. However, it is a very profound study. Many astrologers claim that they are able to see past lives in the chart, but not all of it is reliable.
The other question is why do we need to look at past lives at all? My experience is that people who face certain situation in their lives and they don’t have a clear explanation. For example, why do they have certain fears, or why are they attracted to certain people. Some of these answers cannot be traced to childhood only, but to earlier past life experiences.
Now, when we speak of Jeffrey Wolf Green, he developed this knowledge in the late seventies and eighties …he was very inspired by Dane Rudhyar, an astrologer who was very active since 1930. Many of these concepts were inspired by eastern philosophies that Dane Rudhyar had brought to the West. Jeffrey Wolf Green had his own dreams, revelations and further developed this information. Does that answer your question?
ADRIAN: Yes! So, Jeffrey Wolf Green named you a top-notch astrologer noting that you’d typically ask very deep and penetrating questions, your analysis of charts is very accurate, and you are always able to uncover the causative factors in a person’s overall psychological and behavioral reality. These are very nice words.
MAURICE: Yes, we worked a lot together, especially in the nineties. I was teaching his material in different places of the world; I was living at the time in Israel, but also in the United States and so we definitely worked very closely together but today we are not in touch anymore. It’s been about ten years or so that we have not been working together. I personally developed this body of knowledge in my own study and research. Some of these new developments were published in my book Neptune, the 12th House, and Pisces – 2nd Edition: The Timelessness of Truth.
ADRIAN: You also wrote Astrology and the Evolution of Consciousness. Can you update us on your personal background and how did you start with astrology?
MAURICE: I was always very interested in it, even as a young child. Then, when I was about eighteen a friend of mine suggested that we take an astrology class, so it was a big surprise to me because I never thought about studying astrology. When I went to the class, I quickly learned everything, it was very natural to me, as if I was remembering it and not really studying. I was studying sound engineering at the time, so I was not thinking about doing any work with astrology, but very quickly, people started asking for their charts and it gradually took over my professional life. When I was about twenty-two, I had a spiritual experience where it became clear that I need to focus exclusively on astrology as my path, and that’s what I’ve been doing since. I’ve been teaching, writing and counseling. It seems like astrology was waiting for me.
ADRIAN: I have to congratulate you for your predictions about the 2016 US elections. You made a video about Jupiter in Libra and there you made a clear prediction that Trump will win the elections, because two or three times before it was the same.
MAURICE: Oh, yes. Well, you know, I will tell you honestly; the way I presented this was to actually let people think, and not to choose a particular candidate. What I was highlighting was the need to see that there are very strong points in both candidate’s charts. And the Jupiter Return for the previous presidents and now with Trump, is a very strong card, even Trump’s daughter had Jupiter Return, it’s not exact but it was in the year of Jupiter in Libra. So, there was definitely a lot going on for him, but I will tell you honestly, I was not completely sure myself. And we understood later that Hillary’s chart was also wrong and so a lot of astrologers were confused because they were not using the right chart.
That’s always a problem in our profession; we sometimes have to rely on misleading information, especially in public issues. So, we’ll see what happens, it’s a very dramatic election. And we know also that Trump will have the Eclipse in August 2017 exactly on his Mars and Ascendant, so that will very likely affect the leadership in the United States.
ADRIAN: Who were the other cases of candidates with Jupiter in Libra who were elected as presidents of the US?
MAURICE: The two recent ones were Bill Clinton in 1992, who also is born with Jupiter in Libra and was elected during Jupiter in Libra’s cycle and George Bush, the young Bush, his second term in 2004, was during a Jupiter in Libra Return in his chart.
ADRIAN: I think we can now approach the subject of this interview, which I titled “2020 – the end of things or a new beginning”? You gave some lectures about the great Pluto-Saturn cycles…
ADRIAN: But as far as I’m aware, what is happening in 2020 is not just the conjunction of Saturn-Pluto, but more significant events. Can we summarize all these and then come up with a potential interpretation?
MAURICE: Yes. This is a big subject because 2020 is a very, very charged year, where many cycles of great importance are starting or closing, as you were saying. I will begin with the Pluto-Saturn conjunction, because that’s the first one that takes place on the 12th of January 2020. They will meet only once in this cycle. Usually, when you have planets coming together, there’s a retrograde phase and then there’s another pass, so usually we experience three conjunctions in one year, but for this one there will be only one exact conjunction, even though Pluto and Saturn will stay in the same area for the whole time, starting in 2019.
I will also want to say that we will start to feel a lot of these changes before, even starting in 2018, then more so in 2019 and the more intense development will be in 2020. The Pluto-Saturn conjunction will take place at 22 degrees Capricorn and it will exactly conjunct the Sun, Mercury and the asteroid or dwarf planet Ceres. So it’s going to be a five planet conjunction.
The degree 22 Capricorn is a very powerful degree – I will talk to you about it very soon – but if we look at Pluto-Saturn conjunctions, they are very powerful, and we can look back at history and see how many, many political and structural events occurred, that changed sometimes the course of history. This conjunction is something that can redirect the course of history and since there are so many other dramatic events happening in that year, we can expect a very important year. On my website www.mauricefernandez.com there’s a section with articles, where you can look for this particular subject and you will also see a video that I made about “the year 2017 leading to 2020”.
One of the important things is to understand that every big cycle like that has an evolutionary reason, a role or purpose. When I look at Pluto-Saturn and we know Saturn has to do with government, structure, politics, but the real, deeper meaning of Saturn it is that it has to do with divine order on this planet, in this life. Saturn connects both the man-made laws, the laws that we have in our society – stop at the red light, pay your taxes and this kind of law – but it also has to do with the spiritual laws of Karma, and the need to be accountable for what you do and the fact that this universe doesn’t happen just randomly, but it functions on very precise laws on all levels: these are physical laws, spiritual laws and moral laws. So, when Saturn comes back to Capricorn, it’s not just about governmental structures and leadership, it also has to do with all of us, as individuals and also countries, being aligned, in line with spiritual laws, which means it is a time where there’s a lot of Karma being either repaired or damaged. So, we speak about a time where we have to be accountable, where we have to realign ourselves with the divine order and not think that we can do whatever we want, and we can steal, and we can lie, and we can abuse the Earth and other people. It is a time where we need to understand it’s not just about us, there is something bigger than us, this higher order.
And when we speak of Pluto, we speak of the soul needing to expand its vessel. If there’s any term you don’t understand, let me know, so I can explain, but when I speak of Pluto, I speak of our vessel, our cup. And we fill our cup with water, but when our cup is too small, then the water overflows. Pluto wants to make the cup bigger, so we can have more consciousness, more water, that’s the process of evolution and transformation. With Pluto-Saturn, we speak of our need for re-empowerment and our need for empowered and true leadership.
MAURICE: Yeah, this is why many people who are born with Pluto-Saturn aspects, whether it’s a conjunction or a square, or people born with Saturn in Scorpio, in any kind of interplay between these two energies you will see that these are people who are either very angry at authority, because they cannot trust authority and they see the corruption and the problems, or they can be themselves an authority who is corrupt or tempted to do things that are not aligned. So, the theme of corruption and the theme of true leadership is very strong with Pluto-Saturn, because the evolutionary purpose is to have a responsible leader and then systems and government, which means that those who are not strong enough and those who are not ethical, may go through a very deep crisis. Many hidden things come to surface; many things that are not used properly start to break down. So, one of the spiritual purpose of Pluto-Saturn is to understand, to find, who on this Earth can be the one who holds the keys to the power. On a spiritual level the purpose is to find someone that is clean, ethical and strong enough to be able to hold the powers in the world. What is Power? Physical power it’s money. Power can be resources like gold or oil. Power can also be spiritual power and for example it’s very interesting that two very spiritual countries, who have spiritual power, India and Israel, were both created during this conjunction.
ADRIAN: And also, Pakistan.
MAURICE: Yeah, and we see how these countries on the one hand have a lot of conflict and a lot of instability, because there is something about them that reflects that need for power. People want it; people want to get Jerusalem and people want to get Varanasi and the three strong religions Islam in Pakistan, Hinduism in India and Judeo-Christian in Israel, are very strong sources; it’s not just a country that has a rich history and a rich culture, this is where it began, this is its spring. Even Saudi Arabia, the most important country for Islam – the Mecca – is created on a Pluto-Saturn opposition.
When we speak of Pluto-Saturn times, it’s a time when everyone wants to get the power, people want the money and they want the resources and it’s a time when the Universe is restructuring the distribution of power: where will the power go his time? And there will be those who will try to get the power unethically and you will see those who will be receiving the power in a natural way, they will rise to prominence, they will gain status and you will see the others fall apart. And if we look back at history, especially in 1914 when Pluto-Saturn were conjunct in Cancer, the opposite sign of now in Capricorn, we saw the fall and the rise of empires. We saw the fall of the Ottoman Empire, we saw the fall of the Russian Monarchy and the whole Europe was redrawn new borders.
ADRIAN: New countries appeared.
MAURICE: New countries and the whole Soviet bloc was soon after created. The same was happening in China, there was also a very big shift in the leadership there at the time. We have to watch these events and we see now how everything is already so much in question. We see the European Union being very fragile, countries leaving, we have the Brexit.
ADRIAN: The crisis in Greece…
MAURICE: Greece and maybe more countries. This will be at a decisive time in 2020 to see if Europe will survive this and if it will, what is going to be its new form. One of the charts for Greece – there are different charts for different periods – but one of the charts for Greece has the Sun in Capricorn at 22 degrees Capricorn, right where the Pluto-Saturn is. That’s interesting as everyone can understand. This is just a glimpse into this cycle and we speak of countries, we speak of Europe and this will affect everywhere.
If we look at Donald Trump’s chart, his natal Saturn is 23 Cancer, so this conjunction will oppose his own Saturn, so you can imagine that the United States will also go through a very deep crisis. A crisis in leadership and who knows, if he will be able to navigate this properly or if he will elevate the country or lead it to a collapse. We also know that the United States is born with Pluto in Capricorn.
ADRIAN: That means the US will also have a Pluto Return.
MAURICE: The Pluto Return is a little later in 2022, at 27 Capricorn, but it’s close enough.
ADRIAN: The United States Constitution dates from September 1787, also coinciding with a Pluto-Saturn moment, the CIA was founded on the 26th of July 1947 on a Pluto-Saturn as well. And the state of California was admitted on the Union on the 9th of September 1850, which also happens to be a Pluto-Saturn event…
MAURICE: Yeah, if you do research you will see that these very important moments… you know, what is the Constitution? The Constitution it’s the fundamental law, it’s like the Tables of Moses coming with the Ten Commandments and letting us know that there are guidelines, that you can’t just do anything you want, that there is something that works and there’s something that doesn’t work. So if we look at the Constitution, this is something very Saturnian that help us navigate, get guidance in our lives. As you may know, in Evolutionary Astrology we look at the nodal axis in a very prominent way and if you look again at the year 2020, you will see that already in 2019 there will be a conjunction between Pluto and the nodal axis which will be at the end of Capricorn. It will be conjunct the Pluto of the United States and then the transiting Pluto will conjunct the Nodes already around that time. It will be exact somewhere around – if I’m not mistaking – April 2019 you already have Pluto at 23 Capricorn, the south node in 23 Capricorn and Saturn at 20 Capricorn, they will not be conjunct, but they’ll be very close and on the Nodes, so it’s already going to be in process then.
ADRIAN: This is really, really huge.
MAURICE: Absolutely! The other thing to pay attention to, is the eclipses of these two years ’19 and ’20, for example, I’m looking here, December 25th and 26th of 2019, just before the year begins, you have a Solar eclipse on Jupiter at 4 to 5 degrees Capricorn. Now, when you have Jupiter coming and joining this mix, it adds tremendous energy and power to this event. It will not only expand it, it creates a bulldozer effect, because if you look at the chart of all the big dictators, they all have Jupiter on their Nodes. It doesn’t mean that everyone that has Jupiter on the Node will become a dictator, but it is very strong in the chart of people who can come on very strong and push their agenda in ways that can be sometimes destructive. Of course, there are positive examples like the Pope Francis, which has Jupiter close to his North Node conjunct his Sun in Sagittarius, but if you look at Hitler and you look at Stalin and a few others, you will see they all have Jupiter on the Nodes, because these are people that do not have fear. Jupiter gives you a sense of grandeur and it gives you a feeling that God is with you and …
ADRIAN: You deserve everything…
MAURICE: Yeah! It’s a sense of entitlement and it’s also ideological. So, you’re not driven by practical concerns, you’re driven by a vision and it creates this messianic complex. That’s why these people have no fear, because they feel like they are chosen. And so, they create a lot of damage. So, when we see this Eclipse on Jupiter, it’s very powerful, it can be very positive, but it can also be something that gets too big, out of control. And then Jupiter will join the conjunction of Saturn and Pluto in April 2020 and that will also take place at the end of Capricorn, so the whole 2020 year we are actually going to have Pluto-Jupiter-Saturn coming in and out of their conjunctions. At the same time, Neptune will also be in Pisces, not too far of a sextile and Uranus will be in Taurus.
Now, if you think of Uranus in Taurus, you think of economic systems, you think of a need to upgrade, to bring new ideas to the monetary system, it will have a lot to do with banking and also Earth resources. If you look at Pluto-Saturn you see power and structure issues and if you look at Uranus in Taurus and you see banking, you understand that there is a link between the two. We may see the banking system going through a new development, a kind of revolution or it may lead to a recession. Every time there’s a Pluto-Saturn conjunction, there’s a tendency for a recession, where the economy is slowing down and it’s very intense. It doesn’t have to be exactly the same year, it can be a year before, the year after – where there are events that caused that – there was a big recession in the early ’80s in the United States – ‘82 – when there was also a Pluto-Saturn-Jupiter conjunction in Libra. Economically, these times are where we have to go to the source: we have to really reconsider what the Federal Reserve is in the United States and the whole monetary system of the Euro, and the economy in Asia, all these places will have to think in new ways about trade and resources and also about the environment, because if you look at Neptune in Pisces and you look at Uranus in Taurus, both Pisces and Taurus have to do with natural resources. Pisces is everything that the Earth provides, that we did not work for – it’s the natural element – so, even though we speak of oil and gas as part of the power structure of Pluto – the oil and gas is also Neptune in Pisces, because everything that is natural, not manmade, that doesn’t have human interference – it’s related to Neptune in Pisces. We may find new resources or there may be a whole new shortage or economic negotiation around the natural resources but, beyond that, it is also about the destruction of the Earth and the vanishing species. More and more scientists are speaking about The Sixth Extinction and the fact that animals are disappearing from the Planet at a very, very rapid rate, not only because of the climate change, but also because of human activity. Taurus has to do with Earth as agriculture and our relationship with the Earth, so a lot is going to happen on that level as well and we can hope for the best, but we have to be very careful.
ADRIAN: Let’s not forget water it’s the resource governed by Neptune in Pisces.
MAURICE: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s the obvious thing, people often see Neptune in Pisces as the water crisis and I wrote an article about this in the The Career Astrologer, the OPA magazine, it will be published in the coming days. OPA is the Organization for Professional Astrology, which I’m president of and every season we have a magazine with many articles. So, there’s an article there about the water crisis and I wrote: if we look at the events in April 2010 when Chiron went into Pisces – zero Pisces – in the very same day Chiron went into Pisces, there was the explosion of the oil rail in the Gulf of Mexico, the Deepwater Horizon. So that same day, in April 2010 is when there was an explosion and this massive contamination of water. Then, when Neptune moved into Pisces in April 2011, it was two weeks after the Fukushima disaster. It happened when Uranus left Pisces into Aries and Neptune left Aquarius into Pisces, so a deep wound in the oceans and I think Fukushima is one of the biggest water disaster ever imagined. It’s still leaking, and our waters will never be the same for many, many decades.
ADRIAN: Yeah, maybe even hundreds of years.
MAURICE: And so that’s you know – and we don’t talk about overfishing and acidification of water and you also see everywhere on the planet there are water crisis. You see – I don’t know if you were aware in Romania about the city in the United States called Flint, where the governor wanted to save money and basically redirect the water of the city from another reservoir and it lead to the pollution of natural water. I won’t get into the entire story, but it basically leads to people experiencing possibly irreparable health damage, because of this.
ADRIAN: And the big events happening right now in the US, right?
MAURICE: Yes, Standing Rock protest is Native Americans fighting for their rights to water, because the industrial companies want to build the pipeline through very important water reservoirs. So, water issues are big and they’re going to continue to be, but one of the big advances here is that there is more and more knowledge now and use of desalination factories, where countries are using ocean waters and they have a process of extracting the salt.
ADRIAN: To replace their supplies.
MAURICE: This can help with droughts and water shortages, because if we do not develop this technology of desalination, there will be very, very dramatic wars around water, because the shortage of water is clear, it’s going to happen, the quality of water is not the way it used to be. So, the ability to use ocean waters is the only way to prevent wars and to basically be able to help countries and people.
ADRIAN: That’s a grim picture about the future.
MAURICE: Well, it is grim and yet at the same time, I think the difficulty is that everything happens very quickly. There is intensity, the change happens already since the Pluto-Uranus square (2008-2020), there’s much change happening that we don’t have enough time to digest it, these are the times we live in, where things are accelerated, and these big cycles do not leave us a lot of room for mistake. We are getting used to one change and then immediately there’s another change, and then immediately there’s another one… It’s just like the cell phone, we have a new cell phone and then a year later it’s already very old and we have to throw it away. People are not catching up, but if we look at the nature of this change, they’re not bad, they’re important changes and if we speak of restructuring leadership, that’s not a bad thing, as well.
ADRIAN: Oh, Mr. Putin just popped up in my mind. In 2020 he will have about twenty years in power, because he started in August ’99 as the Prime Minister of Russian Federation and then President from 2000 and one way or another he was there ever since. Most probably he will be there in 2020 as well.
MAURICE: He’s very smart and he is not afraid, he is a very, very good politician. That’s why he knows how to manipulate the system. In some ways he was an important force for Russia, because before him was Yeltsin who was very unstable and obviously Gorbachev leaving, so the situation was not good, and Putin brought Russia to a more stable place after the Soviet decomposition. But in some ways, he is taking advantage of that and he is manipulating democracy to suit his power agenda and guess what…
ADRIAN: Can we take a look at his birth chart?
MAURICE: Yeah… If we look at his birth chart, he has Pluto in the Tenth House conjunct Mid Heaven and conjunct the South Node. So, we spoke of Pluto on the Nodes in 2019, so it will be the same signature that he has at birth, even if it’s in a different sign, it’s an important – we call it a recurrence – it’s the same configuration that repeats in another place. So that will be for him…
ADRIAN: A very special moment?
MAURICE: It will be some kind of a crossroad. We have to look at when elections are scheduled in Russia, that will be an important time and besides, the 2020 Pluto-Saturn conjunction at 22 Capricorn, will make a 150 degrees angle, a quincunx aspect to his Pluto at 22 Leo and it will square his Neptune-Mercury at 21 Libra…
ADRIAN: But also, Saturn and Sun, they are also conjunct there.
MAURICE: yes, and with these transits there will definitely be a major shift in Russian politics. We can say that borders are being redrawn and we speak of the fact that some empires will fall, and some new power structures will develop but those who are smart will know how to navigate this. And he is one who knows how to use Pluto power, he’s very used to this energy, he knows how to navigate its currents. Obama for example is more of an Uranian leader, he’s more mental, more progressive, he’s very good with Uranian development and Uranian transits, but he is not as skilled and powerful with Pluto transits.
We can see the same with another leader that keeps staying in power forever in Israel – Benjamin Netanyahu, he is also a Libra, and if we understand that Israel and Saudi Arabia have a Pluto-Saturn in the country’s charts, we can also anticipate important structural changes, political changes, topographic changes in these countries and who knows, for the better and hopefully not for the worse, but for sure Pluto-Saturn will crack the nut, it will break the status quo.
ADRIAN: But it will have an impact on China and Iran, and also India and Pakistan we already mentioned, right?
ADRIAN: Let’s discus about China!
MAURICE: Well, if you look at China’s chart (1st of October 1949, 10 in the afternoon in Beijing), China has Jupiter at 22 Capricorn. So that conjunction will be on China’s Jupiter in the Twelfth House. And China also has the Moon at 3 degrees Aquarius and something we need to speak about now is that after the Pluto-Saturn conjunction, later in the year on the 21 of December 2020, we have a very important Saturn-Jupiter exact conjunction at zero degrees Aquarius. That is very important because it’s a new series of conjunctions for Jupiter and Saturn, they come together every twenty years and usually it is in the same element and for a long time it was in the Earth signs. In 1920 it was in Virgo, 1940 it was in Taurus, in 1960 it was in Capricorn, 1980 it was the first time in Air, in Libra. Then in the year 2000 it was in Earth again and now we are moving into a whole cycle of conjunctions in Air signs, with the first one in December 2020, in Aquarius. It’s not only at zero degree, anything that happens on a zero degree is powerful but It also is a new cycle in air signs and in itself a – how to put it? – I lost my train of thought – but I think you get the point.
ADRIAN: You wanted to say that the world will be very different after 2020, compared to what was before, because the conjunction will occur in Air signs and not in Earth signs.
MAURICE: Exactly, exactly. And this happens to be on the Moon of China at three degrees Aquarius.
ADRIAN: Good for them, eh?
MAURICE: Well, again, we speak of a restructuring of power. China will be a big, big player, it’s going to have a Jupiter Return. It will have this Pluto-Saturn conjunction on Jupiter. I mean, we can expect a new regime in China, but we can also expect some kind of modernization, perhaps some new treaties with Taiwan, perhaps a change in the ideology of the government, who knows, it can go that way if they ride that wave of the Aquarian Saturn-Jupiter conjunction on the Moon. It has to do with emancipation, with liberation, with a more cooperative development. So, we know already that the world and every political structure now is moving more to the right. There’s more right-wing government everywhere and it’s only going to grow towards 2020, so more nationalistic, more protective, the fear of losing boundaries. But after 2020 we may see a shift and suddenly a more trusting approach, a more cooperative global approach, which will be nurtured from whatever happens in 2020.
ADRIAN: And some big planets will change signs shortly afterwards.
MAURICE: Well, if we speak of this conjunction in Aquarius, Pluto is going to move into Aquarius.
ADRIAN: When exactly?
MAURICE: I think in 2025. Pluto will conjunct the point of that Saturn-Jupiter conjunction. Not only that, if you look I think in 2025, you will see that everything moves in the Fire and Air signs, so Pluto moves at zero Aquarius, Neptune will move to zero Aries and Saturn and Uranus will move to zero Gemini. That’s eight years from now, so we have time to digest other things before that. It’s pretty sure that there is going to be a New Era and I believe a more liberal, more cultural and more global approach that will contrast the very nationalistic trends…
ADRIAN: Somebody reading our interview may think OK, I get it, but what’s the point? This is way, way beyond my head, so I don’t give a damn on all these. It is of any good to know all this information? Can we make any difference, I mean on a personal level, what we are supposed to do?
MAURICE: First of all, I think it helps. Even if you cannot change the position of the planets, it helps to understand why things happen. If you see your country going in a certain direction, if you see a whole new development around resources, if you don’t have this perspective you look at these dots as some kind of separate occurrences and you don’t understand that it’s actually leading somewhere. So, I think that if we look at Astrology, we understand that there is a bigger picture. And these cycles are linked to one another, to a big world cosmic order. So, on the one hand you may feel what am I to do here? but on the other hand you understand you are part of an intelligent design and it’s not just the politicians going crazy or a crisis getting to you, there is a purpose and the purpose is actually a positive one. It is a purpose to bring better leadership, to bring a better financial system and to eventually bring a Cultural Revolution. So, in the thick of it, when things happen, you may feel a little lost. But having this perspective helps you actually understand there is a reason. And it’s not true that people cannot do anything on a personal level, even though these changes are there. There are many ways to learn our lessons. We can learn our lessons by burning everything down and we can learn our lessons by making progressive change. That’s the big, big premise of Evolutionary Astrology, is that the stars are not good or bad. What is good or bad is how you use them. So, if you understand the evolutionary purpose, you can do the work and you don’t need to go through suffering.
ADRIAN: Can you be more specific? What work can we do in these, let’s say, one thousand days that we have until then?
MAURICE: Well, I think I think the important thing is to begin with your own self. We speak of big countries and global economics and you can always vote, your vote has weight, don’t think that it doesn’t, even if you we can be cynical about the corruption. It makes a difference. When people hit the streets and they want to make a change, it happens. We’ve seen this very recently. But it also begins with your own life. If we speak of these transits in Capricorn, we speak of you as an individual being a true leader of your life. It speaks of taking responsibility for your own Karma and not only blame the leaders but do the work yourself. On a preventive way, because we’re going through a lot of changes economically in those coming three-four years, I would suggest not putting all your money in the bank, that’s a very basic advice – is to invest your money in things that are more stable. Because many countries may get to the point, at least temporarily, where the bank is very limited, and you don’t have full access to your resources.
ADRIAN: You have money, but you cannot access them because the banks… This is happening now in Greece and India.
MAURICE: Absolutely, and in Zimbabwe. You know, it’s a small country, no one talks about it, but there’s a very, very serious economic crisis, because the government was using dollars, American dollars to sustain its economy and now they’re returning to a local currency and it’s a big, big chaos, because it doesn’t work.
ADRIAN: But it also happened in Argentina, if I’m not mistaken.
MAURICE: I think Argentina went through its crisis and it’s still unstable. But this will happen in pockets, I don’t know to what extent, but we see that it’s accumulating. So, it’s a warning to be on the safe side, to know that you must diversify your banking strategy, maybe buy property instead of having money sitting in the bank, things like that. Or some people prefer to buy gold. I’m not enough of an expert to tell you how to invest, but the banks are not going to be very safe.
ADRIAN: And apart of managing money, on a personal level, can you give some advice about managing other resources, like time or…
MAURICE: Well, you know, once again, when we see these transits, it’s more intense, it is an opportunity. If we speak of leadership and it’s all Capricorn, Capricorn, Capricorn. It’s about not staying home and waiting for your life to happen. This is a time where you can follow your calling. I had many clients who work in the administrative work and they do, if it’s astrology or art or film on the side, and these transits tell you don’t wait for retirement to do something that is meaningful for you. Now is the time and especially in 2017, when we have this Jupiter-Uranus opposition. This is a time to take risks, it is a time to follow a higher inspiration and not only work on a practical level. So people who are too attached to security and they want to preserve the status quo, they are going to feel seasick, because if you are on a moving boat and you are going to new land and you’re trying to pretend that nothing is changing, you will feel seasick. Because everything moves around you and you trying to hold it but if you’re actually going with the wind and you are accepting that this is a time to make those decisions, then the wind helps you. And you feel like you’re surfing on the wave, you’re not drowning on the wave. So that’s just a basic illustration.
ADRIAN: All these big conjunctions of Pluto-Saturn occurred at the specific date, but the historical events did not occur exactly at the same moment in time.
MAURICE: Absolutely, absolutely.
ADRIAN: So, the events might not happen exactly on 12th of January 2020, it might be several months before or later?
MAURICE: We already cover the fact that it’s starting in 2018. That’s when the process is really intensifying.
ADRIAN: But there is another important factor that we did not covered yet. In August 2020 Mars will…
MAURICE: Yeah, of course, it’s just that we’re limited with time… But I think people can look at it on their own and see indeed that the second half of 2020, Mars will be Retrograde in Aries and will square the Pluto-Saturn conjunction. But this just adds more of to the same, we speak of these changes and we speak of another factor adding to that. But the bottom line to me is, like you say, that the change is not just a one-day change, even though you could have significant events that happened that same week of the exact conjunction, but likely you will have a lot of echoes and a lot of processes that happened before and after. So, it’s a whole period of time and that’s a good thing because we will have the time to adjust to this energy, it’s not coming and going. To me, the most important thing, especially as we move into these Capricorn and Aquarius cycles, is to understand the need to work more on a community level, to work more in harmony with nature. Because these are the times with Neptune in Pisces and the near conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in Aquarius, so it is a time where we have to understand our interrelationship with other cultures, with other people… Even in our astrology circles there is more cooperation now, people that are traditional astrologers they now work more with people who are modern astrologers. We get over our little attachments and our little pet peeps and understand we have to mature and think more globally. And I believe that is where a lot of the fields are going.
ADRIAN: In other words, the Sun is shining on the other part of 2020.
MAURICE: Well, even before. If you understand the message that we talk about, the realignment, the right use of power, the alignment between man and nature, you will actually have the very progressive and positive leadership, it doesn’t have to be scorched earth, burning down the house. But usually if we look back at history it is usually a mix of both, you have a mix of breakthroughs and new paradigms and new systems that are very promising and the crisis element and the limitations and the wars and whatnot. The way it works, is that there is usually a blessing and a challenge just at the same time.
ADRIAN: Okay, thank you very, very much for this great interview.
MAURICE: Thank you very much yourself and we look forward to seeing it. I wish everyone in Romania a Happy New Year, make the best of 2017 and if you’re interested in our activities at opaastrology.org we’ll be happy to cooperate.
ADRIAN: Okay. Thank you very much, Sir. We’ll keep in touch.
MAURICE: Take care. Thank you. Bye, bye.